Just a short post for today; a little something that gives us an idea how and when CfC got started.
Hint: The first page contains the most important information.
UPDATE:
Download the PDF document HERE.
Monday, October 29, 2007
Roots
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30 comments:
dear cd,
how can frank claim that he founded COUPLES FOR CHRIST when he only succeeded from vic gutierrez and raul sarceda?
It interesting to note that the discernment process as mentioned by Fr. Herbert Schneider involves not only the individual but also the community’s leadership (in CFC, this could now mean our elders). The discerning individual should enter into a mutual process with its elder. To be sure that the calling is really from our Lord Jesus Christ.
Guys....
Now that the highlight of Couples for Christ history was revealed. I can now rest my case in fighting for that same TRUTH about CFC.
This was my prayer and my first comment (way back) to get in touch with Fr Herb Schneider, for him to come to the open and tell us the whole story. THIS IS IT....
The TRUTH really set us FREE.
My mission is accomplished and I'm out of here.
See you in my prayers....
Ernie,
I hope you stick around. I truly enjoy your comments. If you feel you really must go then farewell and good journey, it has been a definite pleasure.
C.D.
Thanks for posting this document. Very interesting... Just a few comments:
1. There is to be no spinning off the East District into a new community. In fact, Couples for Christ is to continue as a movement for the evangelization of couples. It should not become a community.[MTC]Though not specifically stated it is reasonable to assume that the proposal to "spin-off" came from Bro. Frank. This letter is dated July 5 1992 and per the July 16, 2005 "Statement of Reconciliation, Unity and Brotherhood" between LNP and CFC (see the CFC Official website), LNP and CFC separated in 1993 it what can only be assumed to have been under "inamicable" terms. So can it be said that Frank disobeyed Fr. Herbert Schneider back in 1993?
2. The Ligaya ng Panginoon is committed to support all its outreaches in their mission. The community is committed to help Couples for Christ with leadership formation in Couples for Christ. In fact, Frank and I have already begun to talk about how to assist in the needed formation of major CFC leaders.[MTC]Since Bro. Frank was singled out, it is safe to assume that he was the one who raised the issue of "lack of support for the outreach", i.e. lack of support specifically for CFC. Again, since the letter was dated July 1992 and CFC separated from LNP in less than a year, is it possible that the promised support and leadership training for CFC leaders did not happen fast enough that Bro. Frank went ahead with the spin-off?
3. We realize that people only have a limited time for mission. We will free those serving in the outreaches from any community service they might have as quickly as possible, if they so desire and request.[MTC] Bro. Frank clearly so desired and requested, hence why he was again singled out in this letter as having been granted his request.
5. As for having to make a choice between outreach and community, no member is asked to make such a choice. No coordinator or pastoral leader has been authorized by myself or the Body of Coordinators to demand that members choose between their Ligaya membership and an outreach. [MTC]This is obviously again in response to Bro. Frank's proposal that "Ligaya members, especially those who came from CFC should choose whether to belong to CFC only or remain in the community". And from the tone, it is obvious too that Bro. Frank had already been asking members to choose even though he had no such authority. Hmm, sounds very familiar...
6. Is it possible for the Lord to call individuals out of the community? The answer is "yes". [MTC]Fr. Schneider points out that since joining LNP involved a process of discernment, i.e. ascertaining that this is what the Lord wanted for the individual after 4-5 years of "uncovenanted membership", leaving the community should also be through a process of mutual discernment with the community leadership. Did Bro. Frank act as the representative of the community leadership when he helped those who went with him in spinning off CFC from Ligaya undergo mutual discernment? Oh, but how could he have represented the community leadership when he already asked to be relieved of his service to the community as district coordinator? Hmm... sounds familiar again... anyway, going by what Fr. Schneider said, we should not feel bad that some of our brethren felt that the Lord called them out of the community when they went with FFL. Oh, but then, they claim that they are still CFC so they are still part of this community ...
Well, going by this document, it is clear that Bro. Frank is not exactly doing a repeat of what he did at Ligaya. In July 1992 he was advocating spinnig-off CFC from the mother organization, Ligaya ng Panginoon. In 2007, he was trying to get GK spun-off from CFC by pushing for having GK be mere a civic organization. When that initiative failed, he decided to "spin-off CFC from his restoration group", later naming it FFL... What is that old saying about the fly sitting on top of a carabao..?
CD,
I'll still be around, but I have to MOVE ON and concentrate on Contemplative Prayers Thread in your Forum, which will need some baby sitting.
Meaning guiding/directing initiates to the resources available in the internet.
I'd like to invite those who are being called to this type of spirituality. Just click the link to the Forum on the right side of this page and look for Contemplative Prayers Thread. You can ask questions/clarifications so we can lead you to discover the Christ in our hearts (your own sacred heart)..
Lastly (no offense to anybody) I want to share my earlier comments then about History of CFC Thread
dear cd,
can you post this LNP letter in pdf format so we can download it?
thanks.
MTC sure knows how to add flame with his assumptions. Way to go bro!
Some'thing' tells me that those written words are not lovingly constructive.
I just pray that this blog levels up to the spiritual maturity that we all have been taught of.
May CFC stay blest.
I just received an email that powerfully struck me before reading the "Roots" comments. Allow me to share it with you.
Grace-Filled Speech
Titus 2:7-8
Words are powerful. Harsh remarks can cause a destructive chain reaction, like a match in the forest during a drought. Kind comments feel like a light summer rain that brings relief from the heat of day. We can know our words are the refreshing kind—seasoned with grace—when . . .
• Our tone and manner reflect the way we want others to speak to us. Talking pleasantly should not depend on whether others are kind with their words. Grace-filled speech consistently uses a gentle voice and positive body language.
• What we say about others is similar to what we would want said of us. All of us hope to hear our weaknesses minimized and our strengths emphasized—and to be given the benefit of the doubt in confusing situations.
• We speak only words we know to be true. Gossip and lies have no place in a Christian’s conversation. The Lord opposes lying tongues and false witnesses (Proverbs 6:16-19).
• Our speech is edifying. Speaking fairly and positively of others is part of godly speech.
Transforming our conversation begins on the inside with the right heart attitude. As we saturate our minds with the Word of God, our hearts will soften, and we’ll begin to respond differently. Through the Holy Spirit, we will be convicted of times when our speech is inappropriate. He will teach us to be more aware of what we say and to stop ourselves before we speak amiss.
God will be glorified and others will be blessed when we practice grace-filled speech
If we could just perhaps request Brothers Vic Guttierrez and Raul Sarceda and other LNP members who know more stories about the break-away of FAP from LNP, could we request you please to tell us more so we could all be freed from the the partial truth of FAP's 'founding' CFC?
THANKS FOR YOUR DOCUMENT, FR. HERBERT SCHNEIDER!!
By the way Fr. Herbert, would it make sense for us to tell Bishop S. Rylko of Vatican Council of the Laity that there is an error in recognizing FAP as the founder?
(CD, kindly forward this to Fr. Herbert on his e-mail, baka hindi nag-babasa ng blog yon.. Tks.)
To TIRADE AND VERSY
You know brethren, sometimes it really hurts to know the truth. I already knew this story from an old member who chose to be with CFC over LNP. It is a war of personality between Vic and Frank and eventually leading to the "true" separation or call it split of CFC and LNP. I said "true" because FFL have never been a part of CFC.
And again, the repeat of history, it's a battle of personality again between Frank and Tony.
Haven't we learned our lesson from the past.
Giving Frank the benefit of doubt defends on the situation. If you have the proof, we must correct our brother, as we learned from our teachings or else our brother will not be corrected.
Come on brethren, admit it, you were spiritually nourished through CFC and not with Frank so why leave CFC.
God bless.
Brothers,
This document should put to rest the claim by others, particularly those who joined in the mutiny, that FAP founded CFC.
I believe many of those who defected by choice truly believed in the aura of anointing vested on their leader. Among other claims I've heard was that, in addition to the books he authored, he wrote or was responsible for the creation of the CLP Talks and the PFO Teachings . I just wonder if there is veracity to these claims as well.
Peace brothers and sisters!
Blogegr Jesus' comment is worth considering.
There seems to be so many assumptions about CFC history that are based on perceptions and hearsay. All these need correction and/or validation/verification. This period is perhaps the best time to document CFC's history - with contributions from those who know the facts, big and small. The internet has given us also the forum to do this.
I would appreciate knowing more how and when our Pastoral Formation materials, primarily the CLP and the basic teachings were developed (LNP or CFC?). I can't imagine all these to have been done only by Frank. This is a popular perception.
Maybe Ernie can also actively contribute here?
CD, can this be forum or topic in the Defending forum - "Roots" - with subtopics?
Thanks & God bless.
The CLP Talks, Covenant Orientation, Marriage Enrichment Retreat (MER 1) and other Teachings such as Living as a People of God, Christian and his Emotions and others were carried over from LNP. I know, we were there since 21 years ago were part of the group that opted to leave LNP.
I agree with MinaFrancisco re knowing the truth about how CFC started or its history 'cause history plays a very important role in the development of any group, community, or nation. I will try to do some research myself from brothers in LNP.
When the "BOYS" jump ship, they did not only took the name Couples for Christ but all teaching materials which is in ALPADI and other PFO's who went with the BOYS.
We have a meeting with Fr Herb with the People of Hope here in New Jersey after the take over and it's not "that way" it should be done.
They could have asked for it properly instead of literally stealing it.
I HOPE Fr. Herb or Vic Gutierrez can come out of the wood works and tell you guys the whole story.
It's difficult already for me, not that I'm sick, but it opens up old wounds. I have rest my case already and if you need more information it has to come from the IC itself. Roquel knows the whole story.
I want to shut up NOW baka pwede kayo naman.
Ernie
PS Caloi Y, you may want to add your point of view to the mix.
Dear CD and Brothers and sisters,
Given the "eyewitness" accounts of Bros. Ernie and Bingo that the CLP, CO, MER and PFO materials were LNP material/property and were, for all intents and purposes, filched I believe that we in CFC, through the IC leadership, ought to do the following:
1. Acknowledge the true ownership of these materials as the LNP and the authors, if they are identifiable;
2. Apologize to the same parties for not seeking their approval to use the materials in CFC; and
3. Prominently and adequately acknowledge LNP as the source in all printed material such as manuals, expanded outlines, participant's handouts, etc.
There would be no sense for us to learn of these materials' origin and then fail to acknowledge the rightful owners and seek permission for their use. Not to do so, in my mind, would be to perpetuate the dubious manner in which they were obtained. I think this may be one of the wounds our Bro. Ernie is nursing up to now. I believe our community carries this wound as well and needs to be healed.
Peace!
In the CFC page on Wikipeadia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couples_for_Christ), new entries (c/o jed) elaborated on the CFC's origin/history and it's eventual separation from LNP as led by Frank. These entries are very revealing info to one like me who joined only in year 2000. Nice to know our roots and the turmoil associated with it.
Can you validate the wiki page entries, too, Ernie and others, please? Or add to it your bits of CFC history.
Many thanks & God bless ALL
Kapatid
hi Wolsink, and thank you for your comment about my posting. i would like to correct you in public that i have not left CfC as what you stated. i am sorry if i disappointed you with such truth. perhaps you are aware that old adage that goes assumption is the mother of all...
correcting, my dear sister, does not have to involve a web log with all the harsh words displayed in public. correcting for righteousness' sake starts with one-to-one talk.
anyway, my point in sharing that Grace-Filled Speech comment is that as these events unfold before our eyes, let us all put God first before we say that what we are posting here are fair and will create positive and Holy Spirit filled atmosphere. after all, we should have digested all these from the teachings, right?
and oh, btw, i also learned to look up to His Message and not to the messenger. ergo, following personalities is not my cup of tea.
I would not agree on the integrity of Ernie regarding the History of CFC. This guy is not even CFC anymore. He resigned years ago together with the Urgino's. I dont mean to offend you Brother Ernie but from your past household leaders they call you an "ego-centric" kinda person. I hope this is not true. I pray and hope God will continue to heal you not only physically but also mentally. God Bless you.
I think what we should do is to clarify all the things that we need to post on the internet with our International Council especially the history of CFC. We dont want to further the hurts by putting in wrong information from people with no integrity at all. Please email all our queries to the IC (Joe Tale) or Melo. Melo usually answers in email and text. God Bless us all.
to actually know Ernie you have to email all the CFC leaders in NJ especially in the AC and they will tell you only one thing.
Hope this helps.
Some bits of info....when we discerned to leave Ligaya, it was because we were taking care of a province ( evangelization), and could not just " abandon" them.We entered the community through Couples for Christ".The CLP, MER1, the Christian and his emotions series were given to us when we were still under Ligaya. I am not aware of who developed them.
This commentary from my ligaya HH head just recently..." He did it again. I remember, one day, the desk was suddenly empty. Maribel D carried all the documents with them." I didn't ask what documents, etc...I also didn't know about this at that time.
Post this one CD
Someone once told me that we have no right to bring about the past...
I said, "If we don’t learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it again."
This is the 3rd split, for me.
Is it right for us to know our history?
If you want to be credible, stop hiding by using anonymous... at least my father used his Real name.
About my father's credibility, our family was there on the first split. We got the call, when we were asked to choose sides (sounds familiar with our current conflict).
I agree with Jesus’ statement. For us to move one we need to be reconciled with our past and learn from them.
Is it difficult for us to say that we are sorry?
Is it difficult for us to be accountable to our own faults?
To all bloggers... there is nothing wrong for knowing our history. There is nothing wrong for asking questions.
If you have personal questions to me or my dad... we are always ready to listen, even if you disagree with my dad or with me.
Btw… my dad been serving his parish since the 2nd split. He didn’t join FCJ. Early this year, he got a personal email from Frank asking him to join CFC community again. Frank was asking my dad to join this restoration movement.
To my father’s detractors, who do you think invited him to be involved? He got involve by sharing a different view to this current conflict. If you are trying to hide the past by discrediting my father, don’t try to hide behind the name anonymous. Let the readers decide who is more credible.
sincerely,
Mickey Santiago
To the 3 anonymous postings that is hell-bent on questioning the integrity of "Ernie" (all posts within 6 minute period, could be from the same person),
As to whether Ernie is CFC or not, only him can answer that. Maybe he really left long time ago but came back (I don't know if he filed a resignation letter). CFC is always welcoming anyway (like how the father always welcomes the Prodigal Son). Even FFL members are always welcomed to come back.
On whether he is "ego-centric" or not, I don't know the person personally so maybe that's true, or maybe not. In the internet, anyone can say anything about anybody. Comments (or those of his previous HH leaders) would carry more weight if the commenter would stand by his/her assertions by identifying himself/herself (instead of just being anonymous).
Also, even if someone is ego-centric, that does not mean that he/she has no integrity (they're not necessarily the same).
On this quote "I pray and hope God will continue to heal you not only physically but also mentally", one can make an impression that the statement might have been said with malice (as if to imply that brother Ernie has a mental condition). I hope the prayer and hope was sincere and not malicious specially if the word "God" was used in the same sentence.
I do understand if questions arise on the accuracy of some of the accounts. After all, we are all for the truth. The question on the integrity of Ernie is also a valid input if substantiated in the same way that Ernie's account is also valid input (specially if his account is first hand information).
I do agree that we need to get more statements/inputs from people because only then can we put together this puzzle.
God bless.
Deo
Bro Deo,
I say amen to your comment to the brothers who doubt Bro. Ernie's integrity. If one has firsthand knowledge or evidence to refute information he offered let him at least present it and identify himself.
I believe Bro. Ernie's input is sufficiently corroborated by Bro. Bingo and by another post attributed to a member who came from the Ligaya.
I hope the IC finally establishes ownership of the materials we use in CFC and makes an appropriate acknowledgment as the first step to rectifying the sin committed in the past. After all who would want to perpetuate the use of stolen property?
Peace Brother!
I remember hearing Bro. Yamamoto calling for transparancy ... "A governance that is righteous,"
I am thankful for those brothers and sisters who had the courage to free us by telling their version of the truth. I am hopeful that we will be able to complete this puzzle and be freed from our iniquities from the past.
My dad has shared with me that my iniquities will haunt me for 3 generations if I didn't repent from my sins.
I am hopeful the Spirit of Truth will set us free.
Jesus said: "I hope the IC finally establishes ownership of the materials we use in CFC and makes an appropriate acknowledgment as the first step to rectifying the sin committed in the past. After all who would want to perpetuate the use of stolen property?"
I second the motion. It is right, proper and godly to do so. It is never late to say sorry, now that the information about the source of our basic formation materials is revealed.
I hope we can identify those that came from LNP and those that were later developed by CFC in the later years and make the proper acknowledgment as footnotes.
I'm actually nursing a private hurt. A month ago, I saw in a website an announcement of an FFL Handmaid conference in the US, bearing HOLD's 2007 ILC Theme. Later, I heard that a HOLD ILC echo was done in Batangas, also by FFL. I wish that those FFL-HOLD had at least the decency to seek permission from CFC-HOLD PFO to use these ILC materials. Even if they claim to be CFC, they would have no rights to use these materials. As in the past years, 4 out of the 5 ILC talks were authored by HOLD volunteers (not employed by CFC-HOLD)so ownership & copyright actually belong to them, not even to CFC. The results of their work are their voluntary contributions to CFC & HOLD. They alone have the right, if they wish to assert, to decide who should use these works. As it is, these works are specifically granted for use by CFC-HOLD.
I am for spreading God's words through these materials. I acknowledge the Holy Spirit as the inspiration and source of the ideas in these teachings and writers are just instruments. But I do hope that the basic courtesy of citing, if not seeking permission from, the originating authors/institution will at least be exercised.
In the academe, there is a term for it : "intellectual dishonesty." Legally, its copyright infringement. I'm sure there is a counterpart in the our spiritual realm.
Mina
Sister Mina,
Thanks for the rejoinder on my suggestion. Actually I also just did some researching and found this: http://lacierda.blogspot.com/2005/08/joyful-reconciliation.html
In it is mentioned that in '95 a reconciliation of sorts was made with the LNP. And so the proverbial hatchet had been buried. I assume the issue of the use of LNP assets (I am just trying to be politically correct here by not using the "s" word) was among other things forgiven.
On the other hand one would like to believe that lessons were learned from that episode isn't it? But, with your story about the HOLD ILC, it seems they or he did not. It must be some kind of sickness already?
Peace!
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