Friday, April 4, 2008

Origins Pt. 2

If you've been holding your breath for the 2nd part of Origins, here it is:

Click HERE.

or use the direct link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2xbxlhxgkmx

I will be reprinting it here in its entirety in a few hours.

I must say, this one should have been entitled "Truths and Consequences", if you all get my drift. =)

54 comments:

FP (foot patrol) said...

HAH!

Finally the beans are spilled. Please interview the foot soldiers what do they have to say? Yes, the foot soldiers of FP who manuevered the coup.

Since we are at it, speaking the truth as we should, everyone who knows what happened step forward and tell the truth.

The Lord truly works in mysterious ways. It had to take another split to uncover the truth of 1993.

What is the truth??? If you think this is all there is to it, you are wrong.

What is the story behind the story?
Pray tell.

Hindi natutulog ang Diyos!

Ernie said...

To fp (foot patrol),

I almost nailed this story in the thread I started way back September last year 2007
History of Couples for Christ


My e-mail to CD;
Erratum; History of CFC Thread

Except for one Anonymous, Nobody followed up and contributed to the Thread to tell the true story.

The truth comes in 3 words, THIS IS IT! This News Release says it all and I can finally close my Thread.

ErnieS

Malachi3/Widows Might said...

The Origins of the split is also in the Catholic Newspaper being distributed at MCGs and I read it , though have not reflected on it but initially the split was another handy work of the enemy,using Biboy's pride chicken and impatience. One of the differences was the seasoning (formation for anointed leaders in the countries being evangilized)of leaders. LNP wanted for the leaders to undergo more formation before they can be anointed while Si Biboy nagmamadali nanaman.

Ernie said...

CD...

You may want to post the picture I sent you last Nov 2007 of Fr. Herb Schneider, S.J. during his meeting with the People of Hope and Couples for Christ in New Jersey as he updates the community in NJ of what has transpired in Manila, just after the split of LnP and CFC in 1993.

That will give support to My HOPE that Fr Herb/Vic G Tells the Story

ErnieS
PS I'm sorry for using the S word. That's the best way to described it w/o SPINNING.

akosikenn said...

The only problem with this article is that it was written by Ugnayan staff and you can see that there is some bias against Padilla. A good objective reporter would have interviewed all other participants including Padilla. Looks like most of the research is based on Gutierrez's memo's and accounts.

I do not doubt the truthfulness of the events narrated so far for even when i was still not part of CFC in 1993, charismatic groups across Manila knew and were talking about the split. That is also why i have no misconceptions about Padilla then and even now as a member of FFL.

I expected a fairer accounting of events however. it was for the most part until the last when the target was clearly Padilla.

Sleepless in NJ said...

The article purpose was to inform. If we haven’t learned from all these experiences, we will be doomed to repeat it.

Vic mentioned that our human weakness is the reason for such conflict and division.

Today, we are more informed and more guarded to such signs of conflict...

Maybe next time we will be more mature in resolving our conflicts.

Ps.
I didn’t see any flame or intention to shame anyone.... but the article gave light/inform/witness to the reason for the 1st split.

"I want the truth, Colonel!!!"

"You can’t handle the Truth."

Anonymous said...

Talaga palang mahilig sa split si Padilla, kahit nga sa amin ang sabi nya, di ba pag nagkakagalit ang magasawa dapat maghiwalay, ganoon din tayo sa community, Hah!!!ano??? ang lupit,pagpatay na raw sya baka mag-reunite ang CFC at FFL...it is not important who wrote the story, what is important is the truth behind the story.. CD totoo ba lahat na mahilig si Padilla sa split?

garnet said...

Reading the second part of origins actually gave us the point of view of Ligaya...I think Vic says in one section that Frank must have "misunderstood" LNP"s intention. We who decided to leave Ligaya were recruited as CFC, and so decided to follow our hearts and the mission of CFC. We were unaware of the the little details of the conflict ( and now I must raise my hats off to our mother community LNP for keeping the conflict from turning into a scandal - unlike what's happening now. We were the last to leave LNP as we underwent prayer and discernment.I just remember now that the general feeling we got was that LNP did not want to go massive and global and that was the direction CFC was heading to. Na shock lang ako now na ganoon pala ang pag alis ng mga CFC top leaders headed by FAP. I now understand why a similar thing happened this time...you know, the Easter bunny plot, the haste to form a new foundation, ...there was no intention to resolve the conflict...; The only thing he did not forsee was this: how can he ask the thousands of CFC members who are faithful to the mission and vision of CFC to leave CFC and join them at FFL and claim it to be THE CFC...

akosikenn said...

sleepless in nj said:
"I didn’t see any flame or intention to shame anyone.... but the article gave light/inform/witness to the reason for the 1st split."

Mikey, intentional or not, we need not look far to see how this article made Frank the villain in the split (see the comments so far on this topic) instead of seeing the weaknesses of man.

I do not question the article's truthfulness but rather its completeness. The article is based mainly on an interview of Gutierrez and his (plus LNP's maybe) view of the events. I count that as incomplete as an article based on Padilla's recollection alone. There are two sides to a coin. Like an unfinished painting, everyone is left to interpret the picture by themselves (subjective).

"I want the truth, Colonel!!!"
"You can’t handle the Truth."


If I didn't know you, I would think you were openly mocking me with this comment. :-P Kailan uli reunion?

Carlos Antonio Palad said...

It is my hope that the recent split in CFC and the revisiting of the LNP-CFC split will lead CFC members and leaders to reflect long and hard on the thrust of the community.

What has struck me about the CFC is the prevalence of what I would call an "autocephalous" mentality and the lack of a wider ecclesial consciousness. Some -- not all, but some -- CFC leaders, especially during the time of Frank, have spoken of the CFC in terminology and language that should normally be reserved for the Catholic Church. I know of CFC, HOLD and SFC leaders who demanded levels of commitment that only the Catholic Church has the right to demand, who spoke of leaving the CFC as it it were a grave sin, and some even applied to commitment to CFC such verses as "He who does not hate mother and father... is not worthy of me". But these are verses that the Catholic Church has only traditionally applied to the consecrated life and to the priestly vocation!

CFC must always remember that it is part of the Catholic Church, not autonomous from it. Thus, it is not for CFC members to speak as if the mission of rapid and massive evangelization was given direct to CFC; rather, it must be mediated to it through the Church, the Bride of Christ. Strictly speaking, we only participate in the Catholic Church's evangelization efforts. There is no question of being autonomous from it, as if the CFC has an autonomous or independent mandate from God Himself.

I remember Frank writing to the effect that "if CFC does not do rapid and massive evangelization, the world will be in darkness". What arrogance! I remember that somebody in CFC even spoke of "evangelizing the world in ten years", as if CFC can accomplish in ten what the Catholic Church has not been able to do in 2,000 years! Well, CFC certainly has its role, but it is only ONE of 130 or so new ecclesial movements and thousands of older existing communities that are carrying out the Great Commission by the authority of the Church. Even if CFC completely fails and disappears, nothing essential will be lost. The Church will still be there, Cum Petro ad Jesum per Mariam. (With Peter -- that is, the Pope -- to Jesus through Mary)

I think the split was permitted by God in order to cause humble soul-searching among CFC members. I think that pride and a"cult mentality" had begun to pervade some (not all) CFC members. Frank Padilla's rantings about how those who oppose him are guilty of the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit scared me off from SFC (among other things) because I really felt that CFC was on the road to becoming another cult at the time. I was also shocked by just how little attention was being paid to Church doctrine and teaching, while the bare bones of the CLP were being treated as if these were sufficient for formation.

The split is basically God's way of saying that not even His plans depend on CFC for fruition. If CFC leaders sometimes spoke as if the entire plan of evangelization depended on CFC, well, God has now dealt them a hard and painful lesson.

As for formation of leaders and members,let me ask: how many members have actually remained in CFC for these past 15 years, compared to those who have left? The problem is that evangelization has been measured in CFC in terms of NUMBERS and QUANTITY: "we'll have a million members by this year, etc. etc." but how AUTHENTIC is this kind of evangelization? Is evangelization a numbers game? Or is it primarily a question of heartfelt and permanent conversions, of QUALITY rather than QUANTITY? Pope Benedict XVI has written much about how the true springtime of faith will come from small but convinced and radiantly joyful communities. Perhaps CFC must now begin to listen more intently to the age-old wisdom of the Church.

I am happy to note that in HOLD, serious attempts are being made to integrate traditional Catholic spirituality, the lives of the saints, Marian devotion, the writings of the Doctors of the Church, etc. into the formation. In fact, the teachings at HOLD's ICON in Subic this 2008 will be based upon the lives of 7 great saints of the Church. HOLD will also be coming up with a series of modules based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This is the new path to take!

colonel's aide said...

I just read the article and I read it twice. I must admit that I am curious to know, there must be something else underneath all these, that the truth has just shown half of its face. I thank the writers for their research work, I think there is still more and I will patiently wait for the next issue.

Yes, I agree with what all the bloggers are saying, we want the truth?

Question ko lang- Will the writers from the Ugnayan be willing to interview Frank Padilla?

In fairness to everyone, we must also hear his side. The story is not yet complete, we just heard the side of Ligaya leaders, what about the CFC leaders who were involved? What do they have to say? There are no names mentioned, the article refers to Frank Padilla and the council? Exactly who were the members of the council? Are they still with CFC today? What is their version of the story?

If I were to interview Frank, I will ask him:
1) Is it true what this article is saying, that you maneuvered a coup and wrestled CFC away from Ligaya?
2) If yes, then I would like to know why you did not exhaust all means to convince Ligaya to let go of CFC in an amicable fashion?
3) If no, are you saying that Fr Herb and Vic are telling a lie?
3) If yes, who were the coup plotters? What role did they play?

This is not a telenovela that we should indulge in the who what why to fulfill our human frailty of just wanting to make 'chismis' and passing judgement. In my opinion this should be openly discussed not because we want to parade the weakness of our leaders and judge them as evil and the like.

We are in a community called Couples for Christ and we have before us the deeds of our leaders. If they did wrong we have to correct them. time to call a spade a spade. Kung nagkasala sila, panahon na ito na binigay ng Diyos upang sila ay manalamin at tingnan ang kanilang mga nagawang pagkukulang na matagal na nilang tinago sa atin.

They owe that to all of us a million members of Couples for Christ. Were we deceived by our leaders?

I am a leader today and I pass to the members under me the teachings that I get from my leaders. They are my example just as I am an example to my members.

CFC is not just an organization period, we are a living community where Christ is our leader and we are the followers. What kind of a community are we therefore?

Now if all these is not true, isn't it but fair to correct the story. And for that matter, yes let us brace ourselves.

To the leaders invloved, the 'colonel' might have a point, "You can't handle the truth".

Anonymous said...

Kay akosikenn,

Ang pangalan ng blog na ito ay In Defense Of the Real CFC, ang site ay www.defendingcfc.blogspot.com

Bakit kaya ganuon ang naging pangalan?
Sino ang umaatake at kailangan naming depensahan?

Kung hindi mo alam bakit dini-depensahan, para huwag mahati.

Kung hindi mo alam, bakit nahati nung 1993 at kamakailan 2007;

Kung hindi mo alam kung sino ang humati ng CFC;

Kailangan balikan mo yung umpisa ng blog "START HERE AND END HERE".

Kaya tayo nasa ganitong katayuan dahilan kay Padilla, ang taong iyong pinag-tatangol gaya ng; 1).The only problem with this article is that it was written by Ugnayan staff and you can see that there is some bias against Padilla. 2). The article is based mainly on an interview of Gutierrez and his (plus LNP's maybe) view of the events.

Walang eksplanation ang makakasagot sa taong ayaw umintindi.

May karapatan ka kung ayaw mong intindihin at tanggapin ang mga na-uulat dito sa blogspot ni CD. Bagamat ang iyong kuro-kuro ay kanyang ina-anyayahan, hindi lang isa, dalawang beses pa.

Sana sa iyong pag-basa sa mga malalahad dito ay malinawan ka at mabukasan ang iyong mga mata.

Ang narinig lang natin nung mga nakaraan panahon any ang panig ng liderato ng CFC IC at CFC FFL. Ngayon lang lumalabas ang panig ng Ligaya na inagawan ng karapatan at pangalan na "Couples for Christ".

Bigyan din natin sila ng pansin.

Ang iyong Kapatid

Anonymous said...

sabi ni akosiken,
"Mikey, intentional or not, we need not look far to see how this article made Frank the villain in the split (see the comments so far on this topic) instead of seeing the weaknesses of man."

Sa palagay ko, FFL members should also be interested in this article because it speaks about the character of their leader today. I think the point of the part 1 and 2 is that, the origins of CFC. If Frank appears to be a villain wala na tayong magawa eh kung talagang siya ang villain. Agree ako na dapat magsalita din si Frank. Kung totoo nga lahat ng ito, bakit nga ba ganu n ang paraan niya upang makamtan ang gusto niya na rapid massive at global.
Lahat ito ay tinago sa atin. Ako at ang aking asawa ay naging cfc nung nag split ang cfc sa ligaya, di ko alam ang mga kwento. Ang lumilitaw dito sa 2 article ay isang malaking kasinungalingan na pinamana sa atin ng ating mga ninuno na galing sa Ligaya. At ano ang kasinungalingan na iyan. Sa tingin ko ay dalawang bagay.

Maliwanag sa akin ngayon na si Vic Gutierrez ang nag umpisa ng CFC hindi si Frank. Hindi ko alam yan, kasi sa mga talks sa orientation ang sinasabi ko nag umpisa ang CFC sa 16 na graduates ng CLP sa ligaya ng Panginoon na kung saan si Frank ay kasali at galing dun tinatag niya ang CFC, Frank Padilla the founder of CFC.

Pangalawa, ang pinamana sa atin na kwento ay tayo ay galing sa Ligaya at sa 1993 tayo ay humiwalay dahil iba ang gusto ng Ligaya, ibang pamamaraan. Aba ano ang kwento ng article ngayon. Nag uusap daw silang mga leaders pero sa likod pala ay pinapatrabaho na ang sec registration. Ano ang tawag niyan di ba PANDARAYA!
At ano ang tawag dun sa pamaraan kung paano ang pangalan ng CFC, lahat ng pera at lahat ng programa ay napunta ngayon sa atin? Kapag kinuha mo ang pag aari ng iba, o di kaya ginamit mo ng di ka nagpapaalam, hindi ba ang tawag dyan ay- PAGNANAKAW?

Ang pandaraya at kasinungalingan ay malaking kasalanan sa Diyos labag yan sa sampung utos.. Ang nandadaya ay mandarambong. Yan ay mga palalo na tinatakwil ng Panginoon. Ganyan ba ang mga leaders natin?

Ako ay nagsisingaling pa rin hanggang ngayon, pilit pilit kong baguhin ang aking mga ugali na di kanais nais, pero sa parteng ito mahirap ko maintindihan, napakalaking decision ito. Kung ako ay leader sasanguni ako sa lahat ng pwede kong pag tanungan, at tiyak ako na ang mga papayo sa akin ay magsasabi, bro kasalanan yan!
Tanong ko po, dapat sagutin ni Frank Padilla, brod nuong panahon na yun di ka ba humingi ng advice? Hindi mo ba naisip na masama ang ginawa mo, na masasaktan mo ang maraming tao, na pandaraya ito?
Sa palagay ko yan din ang tanong na dapat itanong ko sa yo sa ginawa mo sa CFC last year. Sabi nga much is required to those who much is given. Brod marami rami na ang sagutin mo di lang sa amin mga miyembro ng CFC kundi higit sa lahat sa ating Panginoon.
Mahal ka namin, bilang dating pinuno ng CFC, marami kang nagawa para sa CFC, pero di na maitatago ngayon na marami ka rin nagawang pagkukulang at kasalanan sa CFC.Hindi pa huli ang lahat, aminin mo ang paglululang at kasalanan mo kung totoo nga ang mga kwento na ito, humingi ka lang ng patawad.
Sa mga taga FFL, okay lang yan kung gusto niyo mag FFL at kung gusto pa rin ninyong maging pinuno si Frank Padilla. Pero hindi okay na sabihin huwag na natin pagusapan kasi dapat intindihin natin ang weakness ng tao. Iba ang pagintindi at ang paguusapan. Ang takot sa liwanag ay kampon ni Satanas, ang nagmamahal sa liwanag ay anak ng Diyos. Dahil tayo ay mga anak ng Diyos dapat lang na pagusapan at huwag matakot sa katotohanan.

Anonymous said...

to colonels aide, to refresh your memory, the members of the cfc council in 1992 were:
frank padilla
rouquel ponte
tony meloto
bobby pilar
arben vicenio
yes, i ask the ugnayan writers what do this brothers have to say. I think they should also be interviewd after all thier names were mentioned here. Let us hear their story. did they all agree to the 'coup' as fp (foot patrol) calls it, or did they vote against the move. thank you to the writers for this articles, very interesting, very informative and yes very enlightening for me and my household. salamat po and God bless us all!

Anonymous said...

Kay akosikenn...

Huwag mong kakalimutan na hindi lang KASINUNGALINGAN, PANDARAYA at PAG-NANAKAW ang ating gantimpala sa pag-sunod sa ating nakaraang mga lider. Iniwanan pa tayo ng 20 milyong piso na UTANG na ating babayaran.

Hindi lang iyan, gusto pa nilang kumolekta ng retirement pay sa pag-aalaga, pag-tuturo at pag-papalaki nila sa CFC.

Pag-tuturo ng ANO?
Marapat bang bayaran yung mga iyon?

Ang iyong Kapatid

Anonymous said...

i read, re read. kainis, but i remembered tita nina saying IBAE, huwag mainis. ok what else is there to know, let it all out. this is our God given time to know the truth, no matter what. my faith is unshaken, i am cfc but cfc isn't my god, neither is frank. this is a lesson to all leaders, we are leaders not owners of our group.
God loves us all, to the coup plotters time to tell your story. remember silence is admission of guilt. speak up, speak out we are ready to listen and forgive.
IBAE! hindi na ako mainis, will not blame, will not accuse and definitely do not envy where you are today.peace tayo!

Anonymous said...

Kay akosikenn,

Kung nag-liliwanag na ang iyong pananaw, baka gusto mong lumiwanag din ang pananaw ng ating mga kapatid sa FFL.

Anyayahan mo sila dito sa blog ni CD. Bukas ang pintuan ng blogspot na ito sa ating mga kapatid na naligaw ng landas dahil nakinig sila sa sabi-sabi.

Dito maka-kukuha tayo ng balita mula sa lahat ng panig gaya ng CBCP, IC, FFL ngayon LnP. Walang sensor basta ma-ayos lang ang pananalita. Lahat ng opinion ay binibigyan ng puwang para lahat ng angulo ay ma-ilahad.

Ang mga mambabasa na ang bahalang mag-desisyon kung ano ang tama.

Ang iyong Kapatid

Sleepless in NJ said...

Dear akosikenn,

I wasn’t referring to you when I quoted a movie. The movie was about a colonel justifying why he ordered a code red. The lawyer only wanted to know why.... Few good men... great flick!!!

I was referring to our leaders... our colonels.... those who promised to serve us... those who purpose to guide us...

As a member I want to know the truth cuz for me this is my 3rd split. Do you think we don’t deserve the reason why we were made to choose sides? Or why long friendships were put on the wayside cuz few have different views?

Father Leman once shared in an assembly that he didn’t agree with the bishops ... he would’ve push both parties to continue resolving their issues ... or see beyond and embraced their differences...

I took Fr. Leman’s view and compared our relationship to a marriage... will I try to leave my wife cuz we think differently from each other? Or will I try to work it out?

The blessing of having this dialogue is that I am learning from your sharing and I envy your position cuz you have the opportunity to ask Frank some questions (we can barrow colonel aide's questions)... and pray he will answer them. If he does do share cuz we want to know his point of view (truth). Bare in mind Este and many bloggers have asked similar questions before (previous blog entries) and most of their answers were avoiding the point.

I do apologize if my quote has offended you. I’ll try not to be subtle in my humor and try to be direct in my comments to avoid misinterpretation.

See you in my prayers,
Mickey

ps. Akosiken your invitation for a reunion reminded me of another blogger last year... i might have to look back in the entries and check... but if you are in NJ... look me up and i would be bless to have your company for a Lord's Day Prayer and I would like to introduce you to my wife and kids... and also my dad(wink).

Sleepless in NJ said...

Dear Carlos Antonio,

I am blessed and honored to read your post. I wish i can write and explain myself as you have done in your recent post.

I do pray that i will be able to see you face to face and if you could pray for me and my family(as a brother to a brother).

Same goes to all my Bloggers in Christ hehehee.... Look me up in NJ. I would be blessed to learn from each one of you.

Sleepless in NJ said...

To all readers,

I am confident that i am in a company of educated sharers. Why am i proud to say that... cuz they can identify a spin when they see one.

What is a spin?
Ask Bill Orielley he has a section in FOX called the no SPIN Zone...

Maybe a political science person could help me in defining a spin(control).

akosikenn said...

sleepless in nj wrote:
"I do apologize if my quote has offended you. I’ll try not to be subtle in my humor and try to be direct in my comments to avoid misinterpretation."

None taken bro. Like i said, I know you so even if it was directed at me i won't take offense either. By the way you know me and I'm in NJ *wink* think SFC circa '98 :)

And to anonymous, I didn't realize posting here by an FFL member is a privilege. I am eternally in CD's debt. At any rate, I have been in online forums long enough to realize that from your tone and anonymous identity, it is futile to discuss anything with you. At any rate, i will say this - nobody said we shouldn't talk about the origins of CFC. I just question the completeness and say that Padilla's side be taken. If you think that was not a fair comment then ... wala na akong magagawa. I'm out of here - peace!

TruthShallSetYouFree said...

to akosikenn, FFL and the rest,


Can you really handle the truth?

if Padilla is really at fault, what do you do now?

Anonymous said...

to garnet,
human nature is the same then and now. it could also have been a scandal way back then had people had the chance to hear and spread around what protagonists were saying against one another. what's the difference ? di pa uso email and blog nung araw. hehehe!

jonitanitayturin said...

BLIGHT…BLIGHTED!

May I honor you all with warm greetings of a blessed day! Hi CD, Sleepless/Mickey, everyone!

To cope with sadness at being ushered into the family renewal through a “blighted” CFC (in 1990 yet), I tried to seek out any LNP-affiliate from the Kahayag sa Dios (KSD) covenanted community in Cagayan de Oro City, in order to say “Sorry” (there was none, though).

Early on and before its split from LNP in 1993, the CFC in the City was an outreach of KSD, which was in turn an outreach of LNP, so I was informed.

I thought that I must take a second and kinder view of LNP and those in KSD who led us in the CLP, following the revelations in the serialized “The Origins of Couples for Christ”; that while the “historical restoration” by the CFC Ugnayan Staff would be cathartic enough, perhaps I could personally shake off the ill-effects of LNP’s eradication from our consciousness as a self-giving parent of CFC by calling and talking with probable surviving members or affiliates of KSD-LNP; I mean, I felt that I just needed to say sorry and “thank you” to friends of long ago, who used to be with or in LNP and who, most probably, took Frank Padilla et al’s arrogance, stealth and robbery in all humility.

As the priest-poet GM Hopkins would hint, the original sin is “the blight man was born for…” and then it is the once-young-and-now-fully-grown “Margaret you mourn for…” Adam’s original sin is the reason all people must die…

We were a younger couple back then. Alas, we were “born” into another kind of blight, the original sin of the so-called “founder” of CFC and his cohorts … and I foresee the dying of zeal amid fraternal strife by that dogged and blighted flame, an “Adam’s Curse” … unless all CFC is freed and redeemed from it!

I firmly believe and prayerfully propose: PRAYER, FASTING, HOLY RETREAT, AND OTHER FORMS OF COLLECTIVE ATONEMENT. THIS TRUTH MUST SET US FREE, INDEED.

CD?

jonitanitayturin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dirtdiver said...

THANK YOU CD! We were also told here in Geneva that the cause of the split between LNP and CFC was a difference in vision. We believed in it as the vision was truly inspiring and we felt LNP was wrong then to stop CFC in this mission. I already heard FP's side when he was here. Vic's side made it clearer why we are at this stage now.

I am truly grateful that LNP humbly set aside everything and let CFC have its way. SUCH HUMILITY!

Mga kapatid, we all should be able to handle the truth no matter how painful it is. We already heard FP when he went around here in Europe and there is no doubt in my mind why he wanted the split to happen. Kaya at this point it is a matter of ACCEPTANCE na and moving ON.

Happy to report that CFC Geneva is moving to conduct CLP's for NON-Filipino's. And recently we finished one with TWO Candidates who are NOn -Flipino(a Peruvian and a Swiss citizen). Next CLP , next month and we plan to recruit more. I will be one of those in the frontlines for this CLP. Please pray for the team here in Geneva. I will update you all on this...

Anonymous said...

To those who say that FAP should be given the chance to air his side -- hasn't he had the past 15 years, since 1993, to do that? It has been his side and his side alone that we in CFC have heard all these years.

All these years, FAP has been feeding us this fiction -- that CFC is outward-looking while LNP is inward-looking, CFC was for rapid, massive, global evangelization while LNP was not. We, especially those who came after 1993, swallowed it, hook, line and sinker. Did anyone notice that the name of Vic Gutierrez was never mentioned, not even in Gerry Padilla's account of CFC's history in the Silver Book?

In fact, during the early meetings to discuss the Silver Book project, Frank objected to the first outline of the book because it included LNP and of course, the split. He said there was no need to mention that. The others in the room disagreed, saying that history should never be tampered with. He backed down, but gave instructions that this part of our history should be "glossed over." And so you will not see Vic Gutierrez' name anywhere in the book.

The revelations in this serialized history are therefore, only a balancing of the scale and a setting straight of the record. The truth will indeed set us free.

extracopy said...

this is my first time in this blog.
i had to ask my son to teach me. thank you to cd, thoug i must admit i thought this just another 'waste of time' activity

i first read the second part og the origins, everyone was telling me about the first part. after reading part 2, i imagined myself transported to those days. imagine lang, kasi i was a member of cfc not ligaya, wala kaming alam kung anong nangyayari sa ligaya.
what was the mood, the feeling, how was the exchange of ideas, the discussion, oh boy the phone wires must have been burning! the rush of emergency meetings, hush hush talk, chismis galore, extended household meetings. secret meetings, hmm sounds familiar para yatang meeting ng playboy bunnies. may election din, may nag resign, may humiwalay, hindi nag paalam, may tinangay, may naloko, may nanloloko, magulo, confusion, frayed nerves, angry leaders, sad members, heated debates, scandal!
ay history repeats itself.

then i read the first part, dito na sa blog. now i ask myself is anyone from the clergy particularly the bishops reading this? may we hear from Bishops reyes, villegas, lagdameo, cruz? were they aware of all these? they were there from the start of the split, di ba? did they all give frank padilla the green light to go ahead and lead a 'coup de e'tat' against ligaya?
i prefer tho give them the benefit of the doubt. i would like to believe they, were also made to believe what we, in cfc at time thought that ,yes, ligaya was suppressing cfc. cfc the good guys, ligaya the bad guys.

in my prayer i ask, Lord bakit ganito ang pinaparanas Nyo sa amin? bakit ang gulo gulo? bakit nakasali na ang obispo?ano ang gusto Nyong sabihin? ano ang gusto Nyong gawin namin?

and now i see the light, the truth is now upon us, let us put the lamp on the lampstand, that everyone will see the light. i will go to my parish priest and give him a copy of the cbcp monitor, that he may know. i will ask my leaders, we will go to our bishop and do the same. it is time to make the crooked straight it is time to correct the wrong, this is our appointed time.
i have a problem, where can i ask for extra copies?

Anonymous said...

I got an email yesterday that there were 15 incorporators of the march 1993 split. they were the following:
1)caloy yturzaeta
2) tony aquino
3) lachie agana
4) ricky cuenca
5) jack burgoyne
6) andy lising
7) melo villaroman
8) pons tanjangco
9) jess lumbang
10 ) lito urgino
11) oca tagulinao
12) joe tale
13) lito tayag
14) joey argueles
15) roland david

is this true? i see names of IC members? so they were part of the coup? anyone who knows please speak up?

Ernie said...

To Anonymous (15 incorporators),

Prominent names that were top leaders are NOT listed in your 15 incorporators. They are;

1. Frank Padilla
2. Tony Meloto and
3. Roquel Ponte.

Are they NOT incorporators? Did you follow up your source WHY the ABSENCE of those mentioned names from the list?

Mind you the 3 names plus 2 others Lito Urgino and Lachie Agana were the Board of 5 equals that run the affairs of CFC at the getgo after the split. The rest are "PAMPA" (pam-parami).

If the 3 guys were incorporators then you mistakenly listed somebody that should not be there.

Kindly double check so we don't drag innocent people in the mix. If your list is correct then WE ARE REALLY IN A BIG MESS!!!

ErnieS

Sleepless in NJ said...

This is just an observation...

I remember a colonel in Army of Philippines and a Cabinet member took arms and attempted to throw the current government... I remember they closed school that day ... but years later... he was elected senator (I think he is still in office) and the other tried to run for president.

I remember in 2001 or 2002, another Captain in Philippines army attempted a coup... weeks later/months he was made into a celebrity.

What is my point? Maybe we are just a forgiving people (I could be proud of that)? Maybe we are blinded from the truth and we as a people have been controlled by misinformation? Or maybe we let them fool us? (Fool me ones shame on you... Fool me twice shame on me)

I am not asking for political reform. But more of an encouragement to "Seek the truth", and pray that God will guide us and grant us the courage to find it. We should ask Holy Spirit to bless our discernment. My dad always says, "Anak, you will know them by your fruits." We are now more informed and I pray we have learned from our experience but in the end...

It is still up to each individual, if we would let those with influence mislead us?

Just think if CD was there in 1993... Will things be different?

In these times of discernment, let us would pray the "Serenity Prayer" and put our trust in God. I know that there are things in this world I can’t control... but I pray that God will make me sensitive enough to know that He will put me where I can make a difference or where He will use me for His Glory.

CD... I honor you for your courage to be different... for giving us different perspectives... and trusting us that they are mature enough that we could discern for ourselves.

I know there are more courageous people out there (kuya jonitan, kuya carlos, ate extracopy, and all those anonimous, especially the blogger who’s tagalog is deep *I have difficulty reading tagalog*) I will pray for you... and I would humbly request if you could pray for me too.

I will also pray for our leaders... only God could mold them and enable them to fight for the truth.

For those leaders who had misled us, teach us Lord to be forgiving... as you have been to us.

See you in my prayers
Mickey

Tuna said...

To Anonymous re: the 15 incorporators

CFC Foundation, Inc was incorporated on March 3, 1993. Please take note of the dates. FAP told the leaders during the regular CFC assembly on March 19 that he was dissolving the then CFC Council and appointing a new one, and then he wrote Fr. Herb Schneider on March 20 that he was doing so and that CFC would no longer be under the authority of LNP. This means that when the incorporators were asked to sign, they had no idea that CFC was about to leave LNP.

They were aware that there were negotiations and discussions going on but since it was only Frank Padilla and Tony Meloto attending these discussions, they were not privy to what were actually said.
This is pure FAP -- to present only his side and because he is so good with words, to be able to convince many people that he is the only one with the truth. But now we know better.

Ernie said...

To Anonymous (who got an e-mail of 15 incorporators)

From my source;

There could be more than one list. One was the draft with many erasures. Your list which was fairly close but Lito Tayag and Joe Tale can not appear together since the former was replaced by the later in the list; Andy Lising was replaced by Tamel Descallar. Since Joe Tale was out leaves a slot that was filled up by Tony Cruz. Can somebody validate this just to double check.

Then there is the real list of incorporators that was registered in Securities and Exchange Commission 3/3/93.

CFC was registered probably as Non-Profit Foundation and those documents can be made available to the public upon request. Those who have access to SEC Archives can double check and ask for a "TRUE COPY" of the said registration and share it here.

The names of the "Big Guns" are still no where to be found. We might find them in the one submitted to SEC. If NOT as Sleepless in NJ said "Fooled me once shame on you... Fooled me twice shame on me". Those guys have been "HAD".

But don't despair you are all welcomed to share a piece of history in this blog openly or discretely and that will add a piece to the collective puzzle we are trying to de-code.

I know it's possible to have two sets of Accounting Books, but two sets of Articles of Incorporation? I doubt it.

To the bloggers just keep digging and share what you've got. God willing, together we can close this story and learn from it.

ErnieS

Ernie said...

Erratum; To Anonymous (who got an e-mail of 15 incorporators).

Your list which was fairly close but Joe Tale and Lito Tayag can not appear together, the former was replaced by the later in my source's list. Since Joe Tale was out leaves a slot that was filled up by Tony Cruz.

ErnieS

Ernie said...

PS...
Those who have information and don't want to be identified or have concerns "How to Leave your Comment" can e-mail me at erniesanjr@gmail.com and I'll keep your e-mail address as secret.

Better still e-mail it directly to CD idotrcfc@gmail.com and mark it "Secret" on the subject.

ted said...

I noticed two things from the Origins of Couples for Christ Part 1 and Part 2:

First, in Part 1, we learned that:In 1983, upon the advice of the Ligaya Body of Coordinators, CFC was registered xx...at the SEC under the name "Couples for Christ Foundation Inc".

In Part 2, we read the following: "Ligaya would later learn that the incorporation papers of CFC were filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on March 3, 1993."

On April 7, 2008, Tuna posted this and said: To Anonymous re: the 15 incorporators

"CFC Foundation, Inc was incorporated on March 3, 1993."

My questions are: If CFC was already registered in 1983 (when CFC was still under the LNP) as "Couples for Christ Foundation Inc.",what was the exact name registered ten years later, in 1993? Was it "CFC Foundation, Inc" as cited by Tuna, and therefore different (use of"CFC" instead of Couples for Christ) from the name registered in 1983?

What about the official or legal or juridical name that we're familiar with which is the name "Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation Inc" or (CFC GMFI?

Which is which, now? Will somebody please clarify?

Anonymous said...

I have more questions now:

1. I know some of our elders (IC)were closed to FAP back then. What part did they play in the 1993 split? Can they share also what they know?
2. Can anybody still verify or confirm the story of Bro. Vic G.? Or FAP's version of the story, if he decides to tell his side? Or is this going to be another of those
" your word against mine".

sec said...

here is the answer to ted's query:
December 8,1993 sec registration
Couples for Christ Foundation Inc

march 3, 1993
Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation Inc

Anonymous said...

When we dedicated to CFC in 1998, my sister who lived in Malaybalay told me about the origin of CFC. We had a big discussion at that time because I contradicted what she had told me. That CFC was the brainchild of Fr. Schneider. I insisted on what was told to us during our CLP, that it was Frank Padilla who started it after they were not incorporated into Ligaya. She even told me that CFC Malaybalay was the first outside Manila. Who also opted not to joined CFC after the split of 1993 instead made another group Banay sa Diyos/Buhing Pulong which is still alive in Bukidnon. Now I will call my sister in New York who was once a member of Banay sa Diyos and tell her that she was right. That we were told the wrong story! Just immagine? I've been repeating that story everytime I give talks in our CLP in Misamis Oriental/Cagayan de Oro Area? Lord please forgive me!

Anonymous said...

Kaya hindi nabinta yong Silver Book dahil sa kasinongalingan!

Dahil din siguro doon sa cover ng Ugnayan na ang picture ay si FP at ang background ay ang mga CFC member at very imposing ang picture niya pag tingnan mo para bang siya yong tinukoy sa caption na yon rin ang theme noon " SHOW HIS POWER AND MAJESTY". Palagay ko hindi na tuwa ang Panginoon sa cover na yon kasi dapat mukha ni Jesus ang nakalagay na tukmang tukma sa caption "Show His Power and Majesty". The following year nagkagulo ang CFC! Ano kaya sa tingin nyo? Paki post nga dito CD para maalala ng lahat! Salamat!

Anonymous said...

Now I know why CFC was not welcome in almost all parishes in the Philippines after the split in 1993. Akala ko ang mga pari ang masama noon! Yon pala...? Tsk! Tsk!

Anonymous said...

observations as of 4/8/2008:

1. post about joe tale's conditon got 5 comments so far.

2. posts about the origin of cfc got almost 100 comments.

the history of lnp/cfc split will have different versions depending on who say it, but why does your interest lies there?

your director needs your prayer, why not show him your love and support using this blog? encourage others too, instead of throwing stones to the other side.

Anonymous said...

“LNP said that CFC should do rapid and massive evangelization but it should exercise pastoral responsibility in forming the newly evangelized couples before they are assigned to leadership positions. In other words, we
wanted the newly-evangelized couples to grow a little more before they were assigned to serve as household heads. We felt that it was premature to push them into pastoral leadership immediately after finishing the CLP. Infants should not be assigned to serve
other infants in the faith.”

"LNP was concerned about the care and protection of the top CFC leaders, especially in the area of their personal relationships. We believe that the more responsibility you take on for yourselves, the more authority you have to seek over your life and mission.

I noted these phrases from Origins 2. Whether which CFC you belong you need these. God bless.

Anonymous said...

Kay Anonymous (observer as of 4/8/2008:)

1. Ang panalangin sa Diyos ay hindi ibinabandera para ipa-alam sa lahat, kagaya ng ginagawa ng mga pariseyo.

2. Ang taimtim sa puso at panalagin at palihim ay mas dinidinig ng Diyos kaysa sa nauna. Bakit, kasi sinabi ng Diyos.

Hindi mga pariseyo ang mga nag-ba-blog dito para hanapan mo na gamitin namin ito sa iyong gustong mangyari.

Huwag kang mag-alala, Diyos na ang naka-aalam sa mga nananalangin para kay Joe Tale. Hindi yun pang-publiko para malaman.

Baka nakalimutan mo rin na ang link ng blog ay www.defendingcfc.blogspot.com at ang pangalan ay In Defense Of REAL CFC.

Dapat lang ipag-laban yung pangalan na CFC kasama na yung inagawan ng karapatan sa pangalan, ang Ligaya ng Panginoon. At sa huling yugto ang katarungan ng Diyos ay managumpay sa mga masamang gawain.

Ang iyong Kapatid

mike said...

if i may say, we are praying for Tito Joe... and we know Tito Joe is in God's hand and we are secure with that...

Now that Tito Joe is up and about.. we praise and thank God for it!

on the origins, we needed to stand guard and hold ground...

nurse said...

anonymous said
"your director needs your prayer, why not show him your love and support using this blog? encourage others too, instead of throwing stones to the other side."
I ask forgiveness if my comment sounds like an effect of irritation. Dying to oneself is very difficult, but I will try.
Malaria is not an easy illness. I will take dengue a thousand times over. When I learned that tito joe had malaria and falcifarum strain at that, i was very disturbed. I have a personal experience with this disease. My classmate in college contracted this disease after an exposure in Jolo. Today he at 55 he is most often tulala. In the 70s I took care of patients, soldiers who fought in sulu, mind you the ward was always full, minimum 100 patients. All sick with malaria. Like clockwork, they chill nay shake every 6 or 10 hours. Afterwards they sweat profusely, we needed to change the sheets after. That is the easy part, the difficult and frightening one is when they pass out blood in their urine, that is why the other name for malaria is black water fever. For a certain period of time the patients go through a delirious phase, we usually tie them down to their beds, we had cases of patients jumping out of the window. My husband was assigned in Sierra Leon, they were 10 in their team, one died while they were there and another was critically ill but fortunate to survive. My sister has malaria and to this day she has episodes of chills and fever!
Have I caught your attention? PLEASE, my dear anonymous bro or sis, just because only 5 commented on tito Joe's case doesn't mean we don't care for him. No one hardly comments on stuff like this because WE JUST PRAY! . I texted everyone in my celphone cfc and otherwise, heaven needed a deluge of prayers to save him. During the various Disciples weekend, Chapter assemblies, household meetings, we prayed.
Now this blog is about comments, this is what I am doing. I say my piece, I do not throw stones because I know it will all come back to me. Masakit po ang matamaan ng bato! Frank had a choice to do the right way or the wrong way. He is just human, we all err. And we call attention to the sin not the person. I agree with the other brother who said to call a spade a spade. Another blogger called this a sin. When you get someone’s property without permission that is against the 8th commandment, what ernie refers to as the S word. I will say the s word-STEAL! There I said it.
Mga kapatid, I do not accuse our leaders during those days. They alone can say if what they did was such. If Frank and his followers ‘stole’ CFC from Ligaya is something between them and their God! Now is the time for them to speak, to tell all what they did and why ? The truth that is apparently difficult to handle is before all CFC and FFL to know. The season and the time to reveal! BUT, if they want to stay silent, let us all respect their decision. I do not blame them.
The history of the origins has only one version, the truth, which I believe has a paper trail of documents. Not a story of your word against mine but by accounts of both ligaya and cfc members. The interest or the value is not in the details of the story but in the lessons we can learn from this story.
1) Gods Love for all of us- He gave us the faculty to choose
2) Gods timing- perfect
3) God uses all- His instruments
4) God demands humility- the proud He makes lowly
5) God uses even evil circumstances to spread the Good news.
And last but not the least God will cause all things to work for the good of those who love and trust us, and this afternoon our beloved tito Joe will be coming home from Singapore totally healed of malaria! Praise God.

ted said...

"sec said...
here is the answer to ted's query:
December 8,1993 sec registration
Couples for Christ Foundation Inc

march 3, 1993
Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation Inc."

sec, this is what appears in Origins ...Part 1: "In 1983, upon the advice of the Ligaya Body of Coordinators, CFC was registered xx...at the SEC under the name "Couples for Christ Foundation Inc".

then in Part 2, this is what appears: "...the incorporation papers of CFC were filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on March 3, 1993."

In Part 2, no mention was made of the name registered with SEC, but Tuna posted in this blog on Apr 7: "CFC Foundation, Inc was incorporated on March 3, 1993."

Pls take note of the dates and names registered with SEC. It is apparent from the above information that there is really a mixed up:
1983: "Couples for Christ Foundation Inc" (from Part 1);

March 3, 1993: incorportation papers filed with SEC (but the registered name was not mentioned in Part 2);

March 3, 1993: CFC Foundation, Inc (according to tuna's post on Apr 7);

March 3, 1993: Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation Inc (according to you, sec); and

December 8, 1993: Couples for Christ Foundation Inc (also according to you, sec).

Those in the know, please clarify. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

God has a plan for all this misunderstanding. As we all see, it takes a crisis to know who we are. Are we really who we think we are or just like what Jesus commented on his disciples,"the spirit is willing but the body are weak".
As Jesus said in John 6:37 "All that the Father had given me, come to me and those who come to me in any which way, I will not turn them back".
All of us has a part for God's plan. As long as we focus ourselves to Jesus then he will lead us to where we belong.

sec said...

my apologies:
i have before me the articles of incorporation:

sec registration number- 118783
COUPLES FOR CHRIST FOUNDATION, Inc
date filed- December 8, 1983

Gonzalo T. Santos Jr
associate commissioner
(signed Jan 30,1984)

SEC registration number- ANO93-01156
COUPLES FOR CHRIST GLOBAL MISSION
FOUNDATION, INC
date filed- March 3, 1993

Armando Z. Gonzales
associate commissioner
(signed Mar 8,1993)

Anonymous said...

Our work is to save the Family from deterioration.We must continue our work in spite of the problem we are encountering. All of these differences are part of the challenge and everyone is tested to the maximum. In the end it is you and our God will come face to face and it is you and only you will give an accounting for yourself. There are many ways to get to Him and our way is through service to fellow couples. Now that we do have a choice which CFC we are willing to be with, then God must have listened to the appeal of others who want chose which people they want to belong. It is not wrong to choose as long as the purpose is right. As Jesus had commanded us to love not only your neighbor, but also your enemy, is it not a small favor when we are asked to stop confronting our fellow CFC be it be FFL or Global? True Love comes from God and only those who have them can consider themselves a true CFC.

Erstwhile said...

I recall an earlier thread where it was noted that a powerpoint slide was inadvertently displayed then removed during one of the "reconciliation assemblies" Frank et al called earlier in the conflict.

People noted that while the purpose of the assembly was apparently to promoted reconciliation, the inadvertently displayed slide described a new organization (FFL), complete with new offices etc.

Seems like the same tactic all over again - discussions seemingly going on in public while people are already off setting up new offices, trying to incorporate at the SEC etc.

Disturbing.

Anonymous said...

With apologies to Shakespeare: Romeo and Juliet Revisited, an updated tragic tale of two lovers caught in a feud between two families:

JULIET CaFFLet:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montaglobal. What's Montaglobal? It is nor hand, nor foot, nor arm, nor face, nor any other part belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call CFC by any other name would smell as sweet.

NARRATOR: All these trouble for the name? A pox on both thy houses!

Ernie said...

To sec,

Can you check the list of Officers or the Board of Directors in the1993 Incorporation papers of CFC Global Mission Foundation Inc.
I only saw the elected Treasure listed as Arturo C Agana.

The members the Board of Director (5 equal) are not mentioned. Interestingly Frank, Tony and Roquel are not even there as incorporators.

Can you trace if there were ammendments to the initial incorporation papers submitted to SEC. Let us know....

ErnieS

t2mc said...

Brothers and Sisters,

I could find in your discussions some good points regarding this issue. And still the search for the truth continues...

Allow me to contribute a piece written by Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador. It is, I believe, is a good reflection for us all.

It could guide us to discern and not be gullible to persons who claims the anointment.

It can also shed light on how we can perceive the work we do for our Lord through our CFC community. The community which has brought us more good than frustrations.

It could also help plant our feet firm on the ground and focus our eyes on heaven.

Prophets of a Future Not Our Own

It helps, now and then, to step back and take a long view.
The kingdom is not only beyond our efforts, it is even beyond our vision.
We accomplish in our lifetime only a tiny fraction of the magnificent enterprise that is God's work.
Nothing we do is complete, which is a way of saying that the kingdom always lies beyond us.
No statement says all that could be said.
No prayer fully expresses our faith.
No confession brings perfection.
No pastoral visit brings wholeness.
No program accomplishes the church's mission.
No set of goals and objectives includes everything.
This is what we are about.
We plant the seeds that one day will grow.
We water seeds already planted,
knowing that they hold future promise.
We lay foundations that will need further development.
We provide yeast that produces far beyond our capabilities.
We cannot do everything, and there is a sense of liberation in realizing that. This enables us to do something, and to do it very well. It may be incomplete, but it is a beginning, a step along the way, an opportunity for the Lord's grace to enter and do the rest.
We may never see the end results, but that is the difference between the master builder and the worker.
We are workers, not master builders; ministers, not messiahs.
We are prophets of a future not our own.